interviu geri berTonTan

“jazi saubris musikaa da es swored isaa, rac demokratias esaWiroeba. Sen survili unda gqondes meore adamianis azri rom moismino da upasuxo mas. amasTan erTad jazi moiTxovs, rom Sen sakmarisi informacia gagaCndes. zustad igives moiTxovs demokratiac. uamravi ramaa iseTi, rac Sen ubralod unda icode. jazSi Sen Seni SesaZleblobebis mixedviT aRwev Tanasworobas. zustad aseTive Sansi gaqvs demokratiaSic. es ar niSnavs imas, rom Sen amas aucileblad miaRwev, magram amis SesaZlebloba Sen namdvilad geZleva. demokratiaSi xSirad movlenebi Sens sasargeblod SeiZleba ar ganviTardes, aramed ganviTardes ise rogorc amas umravlesoba moiTxovs. maSasadame, Sen unda gayve umravlesobas da saukeTes gamowuro im situaciidan, romelic Sen SeiZleba ar mogwondes. ...demokratiis principi imaSi mdgomareobs, rom Sen Tavisufali xar. Aaq ismis kiTxva: “rogor unda gamoviyeno me Cemi Tavisufleba?” rac amave dros centaluri kiTxvaa jazSi. demokratiaSi, iseve rogorc jazSi, Sen gaZleva SezRuduli Tavisufleba. es araa absoluturi Tavisufleba, aramed esaa garkveul CarCoebSi moqceuli Tavisufleba. kavSiri jazsa da amerikul gamocdilebas Soris Rrmaa. damijereT, es jazis guli da sulia. swored amitomacaa jazi mniSvnelovani. swored amitomac jazTan araswori mopyrobis Sedegia is, rom Cven vkargavT Cveni identurobis did nawils. da es imitom, rom xelovneba, romelic miTiur reprezentacias aniWebs Cvens sazogadoebas  ar miewodeba xalxs. U

uinTon marsalisi  

erTi ram, rasac interviusaTvis mzadebis periodSi mivaqcie yuradReba aris is, rom musikaze, sakuTar Semoqmedebaze da kolegebze saubrisas Tqven ar cdilobT xolme, rogorc es bevr jazmens Cvevia, ezoteruli detalebiT gaamdidroT musikosebis cxovreba, saqmianoba da zogadad musika. mainteresebs, musikis aseTi de-mistifikaciis mcdeloba aris Tu ara Tqveni, rogorc berklis musikaluri kolejis profesoris mravalwliani gamocdilebis Sedegi Tu es ubralod Tqveni bunebis nawilia?   

me vfiqrob, rom movlenebis saRad Sefasebis mcdelobis survili Cemi bunebis da xasiaTis nawilia da es mxolod musikas ar exeba; ubralod ase var mowyobili. musikaze saubrisas me ar vcdilob Segnebulad gavabundovano da zedmetad “gavasuliero” musikis fenomeni da musikosis saqmianoba; me yovelTvis vcdilob naTlad da martivad davanaxo adamianebs is Tu ras da rogor vakeTeb imas, rasac vakeTeb. uamrav musikoss vicnob vinc, Tuki SeekiTxebiT Tu ras fiqroben isini ama Tu im kompoziciaze, pasuxad bundovan da saidumloebiT mocul mosazrebas miiRebT. sxvaTa Soris Cemi es unari erTerTi mTavari mizezia, ris gamoc gadavwyvite maswavleblobisaTvis momekida xeli (geri berToni wlebis ganmavlobaSi iyo berqlis musikaluri kolejis bostonis filialis ara marto profesori, aramed dekani da mogvianebiT aRmasrulebeli vice-prezidenti – k.T). rodesac axalgazrda musikosebi modian CemTan SekiTxvebiT me maqsimalurad vcdilob xolme, rom pasuxebi Seicavdes sasargeblo winadadebebs da informacias. Tavidan me egreT wodebuli qliniqsebiT, anu individualuri swavlebis TiTo-orola gakveTilebiT daviwye da aRmovaCine, rom codnis gadacema kargad gamomdioda. me warmatebulad vaxerxebdi musikaluri informaciis artikulirebas da Cemi samaswavleblo karierac ase daiwyo. me mimaCnia, rom Cemi erT-erTi misia cxovrebaSi isaa, rom davexmaro Cems fanebs da saerTod, musikiT dainteresebul adamianebs imis garkvevaSi Tu rogor “muSaobs” musika sinamdvileSi. bednierebaa, rom Cven es saocari ena, musikaluri ena, gagvaCnia. yvelas uyvars musika da ra Tqma unda araa aucilebli, rom es jazi iyos; magram Tu Tqven musikosi ara xarT, maSin Tqven ar gecodinebaT Tu rogor “muSaobs” is, ratomaa is aseTi sasiamovno, gadamdebi da ase Semdeg. me yovelTvis vcdilobdi Cavwvdomodi am fenomens da adamianebisaTvis gameziarebina Cemi codna. 

Tqven erTxel aRniSneT rom vibrafonze dakvris dawyeba Zalian advilia; sul ramodenime xnis win ki Ciq qoream vifrafons primitiuli insrumenti uwoda... miuxedavad amisa am instruments SesaSuri memkvidreoba aqvs; laionel hemfTonis, red norvos, milT jeqsonis da qol jeideris saxelebis xseneba sakmarisi unda iyos... rogoria am SedarebiT axali instrumentis damkvidrebis istoria da rogor cdiloben axalgazrda vibrafonistebi saocrad mdidari memkvidreobis daxvewas da gamdidrebas?    

vibrafonze dakvra Cemi mSoblebis meSveobiT daviwye. qalaqSi, sadac me vizrdebodi erTi qali cxovrobda, romelic vibrafonze ukravda da gakveTilebsac aZlevda. me maSin eqvsi wlis viyavi da Cemi mSoblebis gadawyvetilebiT daviwye am instrumentze dakvris Seswavla. aRmoCnda, rom me da vibrafoni kargad vewyobodiT erTmaneTs. mogvianebiT ki,YyawvilkacobaSi, jazi aRmovaCine, ramac enTuziazmiT amavso. miuxedavad amisa, zogjer vfiqrobdi xolme, - vifrafoni xom Cemi pirveli instrumentia; mis garda sxva aranair instrumentze dakvra arc ki micdia; ra ici, iqneb jobda sayviri mecada an pianino?  - aviRe da sxva instrumentebze dakvrasac Sevecade.  sayviriT daviwye, rasac pianino moyva, Semdeg ki, sul cota xniT, fleita... mainteresebda iseve bunebrivad SevigrZnobdi Tu ara am instrumentebs rogorc vibrafons...  moxda ise, rom me isev vibrafons davubrundi, vinaidan es is instrumenti aRmoCnda, romelze dakvrac yvelaze bunebrivi iyo CemTvis. beds davemorCile da gadavwyvite, rom es WeSmaritad saCemo instrumenti iyo. vibrafons saintereso istoria aqvs; am instrumentze arc Tu ise bevri musikosi ukravs da is, rogorc wesi mxolod da mxolod jazSi gamoiyeneba. yvela cnobili vibrafonisti jazmeni iyo. misi istoria ki laionel hemfToniT daiwyo. man vibrafonze dakvra am instrumentis gaCenis TiTqmis pirveli dRidanve daiwyo 1930 wels. Tavisi pirveli albomi hemfTonma 1931 wels Cawera da instrumentis arsebobis sawyisi aTi wlis ganmavlobaSi is erTaderTi iyo vinc am instrumentze ukravda. misma saocarma popularulobam instrumentic popularuli gaxda. sxvaTa Soris vibrafonis, rogorc musikaluri instrumentis koncefcia saukuneebs moicavs. magaliTisaTvis sakmarisia afrikuli marimba an marimbas tailanduri da indoneziuri tipebi gavixsenoT; vibrafoni marimbas gaTanamedrovebuli variantia. viRacas gauCnda idea Seeqmna qsilofonis rkinis versia da enaxa Tu ra gamovidoda amisagan. aRmoCnda, rom axlad gamogonebuli instrumenti kargad moergo jazs. vibrafons Serbilebuli zaris bgera aqvs, romelic gansakuTrebiT kargad exameba pianinos, gitaras da sxva instrumentebs; is ZiriTada patara bendebSi gamoiyeneba. hemfToni erTaderTi iyo, romelic vibrafons big bendSi iyenebda, magram is ar ukravda bendTan erTad. is bedis win idga da solirebda, xolo bendi akompaniments uwevda mas. misi vifrafonis bgera ar iyo bendis instrumentaluri nawili. es erT-erTi mizezia ris gamoc vibrafonistTa umravlesoba patara bendebSi amjobineben dakvras; es Seexeba milT jeqsons, red norvos, qol jeiders, bobi haTCersons da sxvaTa Soris mec. vibrafonis istoria kidev imiTaa ucnauri, rom yovelma momdevno Taobam axali vibrafonisti varskvlavi Sva. Tanmimdevroba aseTi iyo: hemfToni, norvo, jeqsoni, qol jeideri, da Teri gibsi... Semdeg movdivarT bobi haTCersoni da me. me samocdasami wlis var, bobi ki samocdaoTxis; vfiqrob, rom droa gamoCdnen axali saxeebi; droa gamoCdnen ormoci, ocdaaTi an Tundac oci wlis vibrafonistebi, romlebic saxels gaiTqvamen am instrumentis meSveobiT... da ra Tqma unda vibrafonistebi arseboben, magram maT Soris jer-jerobiT arc erTi mniSvnelovani saxeli araa. es ki Zalian gasakviria! zogierTi Cemi musikosi megobari mekiTxeba xolme Tu ratom moxda es ase, magram me verafers vpasuxob maT. mizezebi? arc erTi saamiso mizezi TavSi ar momdis. aravis egonos, rom musikam zrda da ganviTareba Sewyvita; es am SemTxvevaSi arafer SuaSia. axalgazrdebSi marTlac arian kargi vibrafonistebi, magram vercerTma ver moaxerxa vibrafonze dakvris axali stilis Seqmna. arada, Tu musikoss unda, rom saxeli gaiTqvas rogorc jazmenma, man an romelime instrumentze dakvris axali teqnika unda SesTavazos msmenels, an axali musikaluri stili Seqmnas, an ki orive erTad. aviRoT Tundac jon qolTreini da feT meTeni. orivem instrumentze dakvris axali teqnika da axali musikaluri stili moitana jazSi. axalgazrda vibrafonistTa SemTxvevaSi ki es ase araa; isini an CemsaviT JReren an bobisaviT, an milt jeqsonisaviT da ase Semdeg... maT jer sakuTari bgera ver ipovnes, sakuTari adgili... es ki CemTvis Zalian ucnauria da darwmunebuli var, rom bobic Cemnairad fiqrobs. sad aris Semdgomi Taoba? velodebiT. iciT kidev ras getyviT, SeiZleba aseTi mdgomareoba kidev initon Seiqmna rom vibrafoni naklebad popularuli instrumentia. vgulisxmob imas, rom miuxedavad imisa, rom am instrumentze asobiT musikosi ukravs, is araa iseTi popularuli rogorc pianino, romelzec aTasobiT musikosi ukravs. vibrafonze dakvra profesiis TvalsazrisiTac problemaa. nebismier bends esaWiroeba drameri, basisti, pianisti an gitaristi, magram aravis Wirdeba vibrafonisti. ase rom Tu vibrafonze ukravT TviTonve unda SeecadoT gzis gakvlevas da amitomacaa, rom vibrafonistTa umravlesobas sakuTari bendebi yavT, romelTa liderebic TviTonve arian. Cemi pirveli samuSao, rogorc vibrafonistis, jorj Siringis bendSi Sedga. misi bendi erT-erTi im mcireTagani iyo, sadac vibrafoni gamoiyeneboda. dRes ki me ar vici arc erTi bendi sadac vibrafoni figurirebs da romlis lederic vibrafonisti araa. ase rom sakmaod rTulia iyo vibrafonisti da gaikeTo kariera jazSi. vibrafonistisaTvis arc Tu ise bevri  SesaZleblobebi ixsneba am musikaSi.                                    

Tqven da Ciq Qqorea ukve 35 welia TanamSromlobT da me TiTqmis darwmunebuli var imaSi, rom Tqveni yoveli Semdgomi Sexvedra kidev erTi proeqti ki araa, aramed sami aTeuli wlis win dawyebuli procesis nawilia. rogor fiqrobT, ratomaa es mravalwliani urTierToba musikaluri TvalsazrisiT dRemde saintereso TqvenTvis?  

am SekiTxvaze or pasuxs gagcemT: pirveli isaa, rom Cven sistematurad ar vukravT. diax, Cven yovel wels gamovdivarT koncertebiT, magram laparakia sul ramodenime koncertze; sadme festivalebze. xolo yovel aT weliwadSi erTxel turneSi mivdivarT da rogorc es wels moxdeba, mTeli wlis ganmavlobaSi vmogzaurobT. Tbilisi Cveni wlevandeli turnes lamis sawyisi wertilia. turne Semdegi wlis zafxulSi dasruldeba. Semdeg davisvenebT, magram cot-cotas mainc davukravT xolme yovelwliurad; isev sadme festivalebze. garda amisa Cven bevri sxva saqmeebiTac varT dakavebulebi: gvyavs Cven-Cveni bendebi, gvaqvs individualuri proeqtebi da ase Semdeg. ase rom, vinaidan Cven sistematurad ar vukravT erTad, Cven vaxerxebT siaxlis SegrZnebis SenarCunebas. vfiqrob, rom mxolod duetSi rom gvemuSava mTeli am wlebis ganmavlobaSi, daaxloebiT xuTi wlis Semdeg Cven-Cveni gzebiT wavidodiT. es Cemi pirveli pasuxia Tqvens SekiTxvaze. meore pasuxi ki isaa, rom orive CvenTagans erTmaneTTan urTierTobis gansakuTrebuli unari Segvwevs; ra Tqma unda, msgavsi urTierTobis damyarebis unari yvela musikosTan gamaCnia; zog SemTxvevaSi Tanxvedris done maRalia, zogierT SemTxvevaSi ki saSualo. rogorc wesi me didebul musikosebTan erTad vukrav xolme, magram es imas ar niSnavs, rom nebismierTan erTnairad kargi musikaluri Tanxvedra maqvs. erTidan aTamde Skalaze me SemiZlia giTxraT Tu ra urTierToba mqonda ama Tu im musikosTan; Tanxvedris done zogTan meSvide niSnuls aRwevs, zogTan meoTxes da ase Semdeg. magram CiqTan moxda is, rac me arc erT sxva musikosTan ar ganmicdia da vici, rom isic aseve fiqrobs. pirvelad erTad bendis formatSi davukariT. normalurad gamogvivida, magram es ar iyo raRac gansakuTrebuli. Semdeg ki dueti vcadeT da moxda raRac saocreba... me TiTqos winaswar vicodi Tu ras daukravda Ciqi, is ki TiTqos Cems azrebs kiTxulobda. saocari Tanxvedra iyo! es SegrZneba gvibrundeba yoveli Cveni Semdgomi Sexvedrisas, rodesac axal masalaze muSaobas viwyebT xolme. SegrZneba zestad iseTivea, rogorc Cveni pirveli Sexvedris dros. me mgonia, rom swored es Tanxvedraa, rac Cven amdeni xnis ganmavlobaSi gvamyofebs erTad.

arada sakmaod ironiulia is, rom Tqvenc da qoreac Tavidan sakmaod skeptikurad uyurebdiT duetis SesaZleblobebs da rom ara manfred aiheris (produseri da kompania ECM records-is damaarsebeli. qoream da berTonma swored ECM-Si Caweres pirveli albomi. k.T.)  sijiute Tqveni dueti albaT arc ki Sedgeboda.

man mxolod erTxel mogvismina. istoria aseTia: 1972 wels Cven miunxenSi CavediT jaz festivalze da fromouTerebma festivalis farglebSi jem- seiSenis Catareba moiTxoves. yvela musikosi uarze iyo; mxolod me da Ciqi davTanxmdiT. es rom gaiges, erT-erTi fromouTeri CvenTan movida da SegvekiTxa, - ras apirebT, Tqven xom mxolod orni xarT?  - movifiqrebT rames, - vupasuxed Cven. Mmokled, scanaze gavediT, erTi kompozicia SevasruleT da mayurebelis did mowonebac davimsaxureT. manfredma igrZno, rom Cvens Soris raRac auxseli ram moxda, TiTqos naperwkalma ifeTqao. man gviTxra, ganavrceT yvelaferi is rac dRes daukariT albomis formatSi da magari musika gamovao. Ciqi da me ki sul sxvanairad, ufro saqmianad mivudeqiT sakiTxs: vis ra jandabad unda pianino da vibrafoni riTm seqciis gareSe? vin iyidis am disks? romeli radio arxi daTanxmdeba am ezoteruli musikis eTerSi gaSvebaze?...  mokled zedmetad praqtikulad mivudeqiT saqmes. amgvarad rogorc wesi, xmis Camweri kompaniebi fiqroben da ara musikosebi. magram mandfredi Tavis azrze darCa: ara,  - imeorebda is, - es kargi musika iqneba da Tqven aucileblad unda CaweroT diski erTad. is yovel sam kviraSi erTxel  jiutad agrZelebda rekvas xan CemTan, xan CiqTan da bolos Cven mas vuTxariT: keTili, Cven CavwerT disks erTad. studiaSi SevediT da mTeli diski erT dReSi CavwereT. miuxedavad imisa, rom Sedegi mogvewona, mainc veWvobdi, rom vinme miaqcevda yuradrebas am disks. sul male sapirispiroSi davrwmundi; diski gayidvaSi gamovida da Cvenma agentma zedized ramodenime sakoncerto mopatiJeba miiRo. pirveli koncerti miSiganis erT-erT koleji CavatareT. feT meTeni im dros Cems bendSi ukravda da man miTxra: me aucileblad wamogyvebi miSiganSi da  koncerts daveswrebi, vinaidan es iqneba erTaderTi SemTxveva, rodesac Tqven orni erTad idgebiT scenaze marto da me am sanaxaobis ver gamovtoveb. mokled, is CvenTan erTad wamovida. me ar megona rom koncerts bevri mayurebeli daeswreboda, magram iq rom CavediT aRmoCnda, rom yvela bileTi gayiduli iyo. aTasobiT adamiani movida koncertze da mxolod maT danaxvaze CamanaTa, rom marTlac raRac gansakuTrebuli xdeboda. amis mere ki yvelaferi ise aewyo, rogorc saWiro iyo, - satelefono zarebi, dapatiJebebi... es dRemde ase grZeldeba.

koncertze orive TqvenTagani namdvilad ar gevxarT sinTezatorebSi, samplerebSi da xmis gamaZliereblebSi Caflul or dijeis, vis gankargulebaSic musikaluri masalis da xelovnurad generirebuli saundis lamis amouwuravi resursia. orive instrumenti, romelzec Tqven ukravT akustikuria; orive klaviSebiani; orives sakmaod rbili saundi aqvs... rogor xsniT Tqvens aseT uwyvet warmatebas amdeni wlis ganmavlobaSi? ratom iwvevs aseT did interess Tqveni nebismieri gamosvla? 

es cota ar iyos da CvenTvisac Zneli asaxsnelia. arada 15, 000 msmenelis winaSe dagvikravs... ori musikosi scenaze, romlebic akustikur instrumentebze ukraven; scenidan ki gaxedav da xedav rom mTeli stadioni gadaWedilia... mokled, rodesac amaze vfiqrob mgonia, rom am movlenis axsnac ornairadaa SesaZlebeli: pirveli isaa, rom Cven orive virtuozebi varT da koncertebze sainteresoa Cveni mosmena da yureba. isinic ki, vinc musikis eqspertebi ar arian xvdebian, rom usmenen did musikosebs, vinc marTlac rom kargad flobs instrumentebs. mgonia, rom isini agreTve imasac xvdebian Tu rogori absoluturi Tanxvedraa Cvens Soris; ra Tavisuflad moedineba musika Cvengan. dueti absoluturad gansxvavdeba bendis konteqstisagan. bendSi dakvra sxdomaze gamarTuli diskusiasaviTaa; nebismiers eZleva “gamoTqvas” Tavisi azri dakvris dros. danarCenebi ki, Cveni jeri rom dgeba, maT naTqvams ganvavrcobT; yvela raRacas umatebs erTmaneTis “nalaparakevs”. ase vexmarebiT xolme erTmaneTs bendSi; bendis musika koleqtiuri Zalisxmevaa. rac Seexeba duets, is ufro ZmakacTan guliTad saubars gavs, rodesac Tqven saubrobT danarCenebi ki gismenen. axlobel adamians rom esaubrebi Sen TiTqos winaswar ici Tu ra SeiZleba man gipasuxos da aseT guliTad da Tavisufal saubarSi ikveTeba saTqmelis arsi. Dduetis SemTxvevaSic asea da swored amitomacaa .CemTvis duetSi dakvra ufro sainteresoa vidre bendSi.

es ukve Tqvenive citataa: “zogjer mgonia, rom is (Ciq qorea) maiZulebs ufro kargad davukra vidre me sinamdvileSi SemiZlia”. me darwmunebuli var rom Ciq Qqoreac igives ityoda Tqvenze. SegiZliaT amixsnaT Tu ras niSnavs, rodesac erTi musikosi “ukeTesad akvrevinebs” meores?    

vinmesTan saubrisas Sen ambob saTqmels da elodebi pasuxs; Tqven rigrigobiT saubrobT. musikaluri gasaubrebis mTeli silamaze ki imaSia, rom orives erTdroulad SegiZliaT saubari. ase yalibdeba musikaluri urTierToba. me vambob, is mpasuxobs, xolo me ki mis “naTqvams” akompanimentiT vuWer mxars. Semdeg ki, rodesac me gamovTqvam Cems azrs, misi jeri dgeba akompanimentiT rom damiWiros mxari. ase rom imis magivrad, rom monacvleobiT visaubrobT Cven orive erTdroulad vlaparakobT. xSirad, rodesac me vukrav Ciqi moulodnelad “Semomigdebs” xolme akompanimentiT axal mimarTulebas; gansxvavebul akordebs, riTmul paternebs an harmoniul svlebs; xolo rodesac is xvdeba, rom me am SemoTavazebebs vRebulob, cdilobs gaamdidros Cemi dakruli da raRac Tavisi daumatos mas. msgavsi ram Zalian mexmareba xolme dakvrisas da met simxneves da simamaces mmatebs. aseTi urTierToba orives nebismier sxva musikosTan dakvris dros gvaqvs xolme, magram CiqTan es urTierToba sxva ganzomilebaSia gadasuli; is dakvrisas mexmareba, rom metad gavrisko; sxva dros rogorc wesi ase ar viqcevi xolme, magram swored imitom, rom me misgan aseT mxardaWeras vgrZnob vici, rom SevZleb yvelafers rasac Cavifiqreb. da es asea nebismieri Cveni koncertis dros.

Tqven araerTxel giTqvamT rom musikis keTebis dros jaz bendebisaTvis ucxoa saqmisadmi “komunisturi” midgoma, sadac yvela musikosi erTad iRebs gadawyvetilebas. sinamdvileSi ki ama Tu im musikaluri proeqtis warmatebas ZiriTadad bendis lideris xedva da koncefcia ganapirobebs; danarCenebi mas emsaxurebian. sainteresoa Tu rogor nawildeba es funqciebi ori did musikosis mravalwliani TanamSromlobis SemTxvevaSi...  

es warmatebuli qorwinebasaviTaa, rodesac ori adamiani acnobierebs imas, rom aris raRaceebi rac erTma meoreze ukeTesad icis da piriqiT; me da Ciqs swored aseTi urTierToba gvaqvs. Cven orive Zalian did pativs vcemT erTmaneTs rogorc musikosebs da rodesac axal masalaze vmuSaobT orive bolomde vendobiT erTmaneTs. Cven arasdros ar vejibrebiT erTmaneTs imaSi, Tu vis ekuTvnis ukanaskneli sityva da vinaa Cven Soris bosi. repeticiebze Cven vcvliT ideebs; -  modi es vcadoT; an, ufro neli tempi xom ar ajobebda? Dda ase Semdeg. Cven orive komfortulad vgrZnobT Tavs erTmaneTis winadadebebis da SeTavazebebis miRebisas da es yvela musikosis SemTxvevaSi ase araa. orives erTi da igive musikaluri warsuli gvaqvs; Ciqi bostonSi gaizarda; me ki skola davamTavre iq. orives erTi da igive maswavleblebi gvyavda, erTi da igive musikosebTan vukravdiT axalgazrdobaSi da orive TiTqmis erTdroulad gadavediT niu-iorkSi sacxovreblad. orive sTen gecis bendSi vukravdiT; orive erT musikalur eras vekuTvniT da rac mTavaria orive klaviSebian instrumentebze vukravT. amitomac gasakviri araa tyupebiviT rom vfiqrobT. CvenSi aris raRac is, ramac orives Zalian gagviadvila erTmaneTTan urTierToba. xolo erTaderTi, rac me makvirvebs isaa, rom Cven ukve 35 welia erTad vukravT. saerTod, musikalur samyaroSi absoluturad normaluria, rom drois ganmavlobaSi adamianebi icvlebian, izrdebian da raRac momentSi maTi gzebi iyreba. me 21 wlis ganmavlobaSi vukravdi sTiv sualousTan magram erT mSvenier dRes Cveni gzebi gaiyara. msgavsi ram xSirad mosdiT musikosebs da Zalianac rom movindomo mxolod ramodenime sapirispiro magaliTis moyvanas Tu movaxerxeb:  Modern Jazz Quartet-is wevrebi 42 wlis ganmavlobaSi ukravdnen erTad; diuq elingTonis bendi TiTqmis 50 weli arsebobda... magram es erTeuli SemTxvevebia; umeteswilad ki musikosebi icvlebian, izrdebian da sxvadasxva gzebiT midian. Cemi da Ciqis urTierTobis aTi wlis Tavze orive vfiqrobdiT, - hei, kidev ramden xans SeiZleba gagrZeldes es yvelaferi? Cven drodadro vimeorebdiT xolme am sityvebs, magram 25 wlis Semdeg aRmoCndeboda rom isev erTad varT. dRes Cveni daSla ukve gvianaa da amitomac albaT bolomde gavagrZelebT.

grZelvadian turneSi yofnis dros, xdeba Tu ara, rom Tqven uecrad “gadaawydebiT” raRac axal musikalur ideas, romlis gavrcobasac Semdegi koncertis dros cdilobT xolme? Tqven portugaliidan CamobrZandiT TbilisSi; moxda Tu ara lisabonSi koncertis dros iseTi ram, musikaluri TvalsazrisiT, rasac Tqven aq, TbilisSi SeecdebiT rom ganavrcoT da ganaviTarod? 

albaT ara. turnes dagegmvisas Cven ukve viciT rom esa Tu is kompozicia SesaZlebelia Seicvalos an gansxvavebulad daikvras. riskze mxolod CvenTvis kargad nacnobi kompoziciebis Sesrulebisas mivdivarT xolme da improvizaciis meSveobiT vcdilobT ama Tu im kompoziciis siRrmeSi SeRwevas. ra Tqma unda, yovel axal turneSi axal kompoziciebsac vukravT, magram rogorc wesi gigantur riskze ar mivdivarT xolme. Cven ar viRebT impulsur gadawyvetilebes, - modi dRes mxolod Telonius monqis kompoziciebi davukraT, xolo erTi kviris Semdeg ki mxolod klasikuri nawarmoebebi. Cven veZebT da vpoulobT im kompoziciebs, romelic Cven sasargeblod muSaobs. am mxriv Cven koncertze orientirebuli musikosebi varT; Cven idealuri koncertis Sesruleba gvinda rac imas niSnavs, rom Cven virCevT im masalas, romelic saSualebas gvaZlevs TviTdajerebulebi viyoT koncertis dros; veZebT im masalas, romelic kargi musikaluri programis awyobis saSualebas mogvcems. amave dros Cven uars ar vambobT eqsperimentebze SerCeuli kompoziciebis farglebSi. zogjer Zalian kargad ar gamogvdis, aseTebic xdeba xolme, magram ras izamT, aseTia improvizaciis buneba. yvelaferi es komikosebis SemTxvevas magonebs. isini erTi da igive anegdotebs yovel saRamos erTnairad ar yvebian. isini programas mayureblis reaqciis mixedviT ageben. zogjer ufro grZlad yvebian istoriebs, zogjer mokled; zogjer intonaciebs da aqcentebs  cvlian an sulac axal ideas sinjaven. zogjer anektodebis Tanmimdevrobas cvlian da ase Semdeg. mokled, isini sakuTars instinqtebze dayrdnobiT moqmedeben. da aq mTavari isaa, rom isini scenaze sruliad moumzadeblebi arasdros gamodian da utifrad ar Txoven mayurebels  gaicineTo... maT xumrobebis sakuTari koleqcia aqvT da am istoriebs da anekdotebs isini gamudmebiT xvewen. Cvenc aseve vmuSaobT; Cvenc gagvaCnia kompoziciebis koleqcia. ra Tqma unda, Cven ar viciT Tu rogor davukravT ama Tu im kompozicias manam, sanam ar gvecodineba Tu rogor movargebT kompoziciebs erTmaneTs da konkretul msmenels. amis gamo yoveli koncerti erTmaneTisagan gansxvavebulia. me ara var riskiani adamiani. PpiriqiT, sakmaod frTxili var. Ciqi bevrad ufro riskiani musikosia;Mme ki SedarebiT konservatuli. miuxedavad amisa, Cems karieras rom gadavavleb xolme Tvals aRmovaCen, rom sxvadasva dros seriozulad riskiani nabijebic gadamidgams. magaliTad, me pirvelad davukari is musika rac dRes “fiuJenis” saxeliTaa cnobili, magram maSin me sruliadac ar mimaCnda rom riskze mivdiodi. dRevandeli gadasaxedidan ki mikvirs, rom me es gavakeTe. arada me vicnob bevr musikoss, vinc Cemze bevrad spontanuri da veluria. me ZiriTadad frTxili adamiani var.

xSirad amboben, rom kargi musika im drois anareklia romelSic is iqmneboda. rogor gesmiT Tqven es azri instrumentul improvizirebul musikasTan mimarTebaSi?

ra Tqma unda simRerebis SemTxvevaSi sityvebi gvixnian Tu razea simRera. rac Seexeba instrumentul musikas, Sen usmen imas Tu ra xdeba Sens garSemo musikaluri TvalsazrisiT da Sensave sasargeblod iyeneb am zegavlenas. es gansakuTrebiT asea improvizatorebis SemTxvevaSi, vinaidan Cven yoveldRiurad axali interpretaciiT vukravT musikas. me sruliad gansxvavebulad vukrav dRes ama Tu im kompozicias vidre me mas oci wlis winaT vukravdi. es ki imitom, rom me movismine am kompoziciis sxva musikaluri versia da momewona Tu rogori saintereso harmonia gamoiyena sxva musikosma amave kompoziciis interpretaciisas. agreTve, Tu me momewona romelime kompoziciis laTinur-amerikuli versia, me Sevecdebi “gavalaTinuro” es kompozicia da Tu adre me mas “vasvingebdi” exla “valaTinureb”. Cven RrubeliviT visrutavT yvelafers, rac Cvens garSemo xdeba da yvelaferi es zegavlenas axdens Sesrulebis, musikis weris da improvizaciis manerazec. ra Tqma unda me vici, rom axalgazrdobaSi adamianebi ufro kreatiulebi da inovatorebi varT; es yvelaferi wlebTan erTad klebulobs. ras izam, asea adamiani mowyobili, magram me mainc mgonia, rom Cveni musika asaxavs dRevandelobas. ra Tqma unda is ar akeTebs amas axali ambebis doneze, magram samagierod is asaxavs epoqis ganwyobas da xasiaTs. ukanaskneli xuTi-aTi wlis ganmavlobaSi zedmetad daZabul da konfliqtur droSi gviwevs cxovreba da mgonia, rom musika da zogadad xelovneba asaxavs am ganwyobas. yvelaferi es udavod axdens zegavlenas im musikaze, romelsac Cven vqmniT. es imas ar niSnavs, rom Cven bukvalisturad vcdilobT viyoT Cveni epoqisaTvis qaoturebi, magram Cven yuradRebiT vusmenT Cvens garSemo arsebul saunds da is udavod axdens Cvens musikaze zegavlenas. 

rogor fiqrobT, ramdenadaa aucilebelia, rom msmenels bolomde esmodes Tqveni sawyisi Canafiqri da intenciebi? 

erT-erTi mniSvnelovani ram musikis enas rac Seexeba, da musika namdvilad aris ena, aris is, rom is araa ena, romlis funqciac saxeldebaa. musika ar ambobs, - es Wiqaa. musikis ena ganzogadebis da grZnobebis enaa. is enaa, romelic grZnobebs da ferebs asaxavs. CvenTvis erT-erTi problema isaa, rom Cven ori tipis msmeneli gvyavs: pirvel tips esmis musikis ena. magaliTad me musikis smenisas kargad verkvevi mosmenilis teqnikur aspeqtSi. ai Tqven xom Jurnalisti brZandebiT, es ki imas niSnavs, rom kiTxvisas Tqven unda erkveodeT winadadebis wyobaSi, gramatikaSi da ase Semdeg; Tqven moyvaruli mkiTxveliviT ar unda kiTxulobdeT; Tqven unda icodeT Tu rogor iwereboda esa Tu is nawarmoebi da es codna, imis gamo rom Tqven profesionali xarT, bunebrivadaa TqvenSi. am tipis msmeneli Cveni auditoriis daaxloebiT xuT procents Seadgens. darCenili oTxmocdaTxuTmeti procenti ki sul sxva doneze aRiqvams musikas. isini saundis dinebis cvalebadobas afiqsireben, - ai aq dineba Senelda, aq ufro xmamaRali gaxda, aCqarda da Tu aqamdis kompozicia harmoniulad mdidari iyo, exla is ufro gaxsnili da minimalisturia, exla melodia Seicvala da ase Semdeg. yvelaferi es amgvarad aRqmuli, moqmedebs adamianis ganwyobaze da grZnobebze da msmeneli sakuTar azrs debs mosmenilSi. CemTvis ara erT msmenels uTqvams Tu ras fiqroben isini ama Tu im kompoziciaze da rogorc wesi maTi azri Zirfesvianad gansxvavdeba Cemi sawyisi Canafiqrisagan. magram, miuxedavad amisa, maT xom raRacnairad mainc aRiqves es musika? iciT yvelaferi es ras magonebs? xom ginaxavT fanjris rafaze Camomjdari kata rogor adevnebs Tvalyurs quCis moZraobas? katam ar icis rom ai is manqana samrecxaos ekuTvnis, da rom is yviTelia, wiTelia, mwvanea da ase Semdeg, magram is mainc zis da raRacas uyurebs. Cveni msmenelic asea; isini gvismenen Tu rogor virCevT ferebs, ganwyobebs, temps, riTms da yvela Taviseburad aRiTqvams amas. Cveni, rogorc musikosebis misia ki isaa, rom Cems mier naxseneb orive tipis msmenelisaTvis Tanabrad kargad davukraT; gvinda rom musikosebmac da aramusikosebmac kargad gagvigon. jazis yvela didi legenda ase iyo. qolTreini da mailz devisi ise SeumCnevlad da daxvewilad akeTebdnen amas, rom TviT is adamianebic ki visac musikis araferi gaegebaT usmenen da igeben maT musikas. Cemi mizanic swored esaa. ara aqvs mniSvneloba esmis Tu ara Cemi musika msmenels rogorc profesionals Tu mxolod intuitiurad aRiqvams mas.

jer iswavle, Semdeg ki daiviwye naswavli. jazmenebi xSirad eubnebian xolme msgavs frazebs axalgazrda musikosebs. randenad Znelia da aucilebelia naswavlis “daviwyeba” damwyebi musikosisaTvis?

es swori rCevaa. Cven studentebs veubnebiT,  - gamudmebiT iswavle da ivarjiSe dakvraSi, Semdeg ki gadi scenaze da daiviwye is rac iswavle. Tu mTel yuradRebas Sesrulebis teqnikaze gadaitanT spontanurobas dakargavT. Cven ori ramis balansireba unda movaxerxoT, - esaa seriozuli da damRleli aucilebeli rutinis, romlis gareSec Cven ver movaxerxebT sakuTari ideebis xorcSesxmas, Serwyma spontanurobasTan, TavisuflebasTan da kreatiulobasTan. rodesac axalgazrda musikosi xar, raRac momentSi, unda gabedo, miendo sakuTar intuicias da gadaabijo zRvars. Cven musikosebi mTel cxovrebas vatarebT imis cdaSi, rom davabalansoT es ori erTmaneTis gamomricxavi ram. msgavsi problemis winaSe aTletebi da msaxiobebic dganan; isini unda iyvnen spontanurebi da amave dros gaeqcnen SeZenili codnis marwuxebs. me vvaraudob, rom swored amis gamo aqvT xelovan adamianebs problemebi narkotikebTan da alkoholTan. isini rutinis marwuxebidan Tavis daRwevis saSualebad aRiqvamen narkotikebs da alkohols; Cven vsvamT da vkaifobT imitom, rom sakuTar Tavs SevaxsenoT rom Tavisuflebi varT. me mgonia rom swored amiT aixsneba artistebis giJuri saqcielic da es gansakuTrebiT im artistebs exebaT vinc droSi qmnis. mwerals da mxatvars yovelTvis SeuZliaT daubrundnen nawarmoebs da Secvalon is, rac ar mowonT. me ki Cemi musika zustad rva saaTze unda davukra ori saaTis ganmavlobaSi da ara aqvs mniSvneloba, rom me SeiZleba am dros an gaciebuli viyo an kidev rame sxva.. me es unda gavakeTo, morCa da gaTavda. ai ase swavlob sakuTari Tavis gamxnevebas da momarTvas koncertebis win. Sen swavlob miuxedavad yvela dabrkolebisa. msmenelis gareSe me Zalian araSTagonebuli adamiani vxdebi. msmenelis gareSe me dakvraSi ar vvarjiSob. veraferi maiZulebs instrumentTan misvlas roca saxlSi marto var, da es imitom rom am dros aravin mismens. gamonaklisi mxolod axali masalis Seswavlis momentia. me arasdros vukrav saxlSi im kompoziciebs romlis dakvrac me ukve vici.

didi dro dagWirdaT imisaTvis, rom mindobodiT Tqvensave aracnobiers? 

rac ufro gadis dro sul ufro da ufro endobi sakuTar Tavs. me sadRac oci wlisaTvis gavacnobiere es, Semdeg ki wlebis ganmavlobaSi vukravdi jazs da mivxvdi, rom dakvrisas TiTqos musikaSi “vikargebodi” imis magivrad, rom mefiqra Tu rogor damekra musika. raRac momentSi me ubralod Sevwyvite amaze fiqri, mivyevi musikis dinebas da dadga momenti, rodesac me ukve gverdidan vuyurebdi vibrafonTan mdgar geri berTons. Cemi .aracnobieri sul ufro da ufro dominirebadi xdeboda. romel gamocdil musikossac ar unda kiTxoT aravin getyviT, rom dakvrisas akordebze da gamebze fiqroben. isini ityvian, - me ubralod vcdilob davinaxo an SevigrZno musika. me araferze ar vfiqrob dakvrisas. xSirad koncertis dros Cems Tavs imaze viWer, rom Zalian ucnaur rameebze vfiqrob xolme; vfiqrob xvalindel dReze, megobarTan guSindel saubarze an Cems win mjdom qalze, romelsac sasacilo qudi axuravs. amasobaSi ki dakvras vagrZeleb, vinaidan pasuxismgeblobis 90% Cems aracnobiers aqvs aRebuli. msgavsi gadasvla erTi mdgomareobidan meoreSi, im SemTxvevasi Tu dakvras adreul asakSi iwyeb, rogorc wesi xuTidan aT wlamde xdeba xolme. 

qiT jareTma erTxel ganacxada, rom jazi yvelaze naklebad Seswavlili xelovnebis formaa, vinaidan SeuZlebelia adamians aswavlo Tu rogor iyos spontanuri. rogor fiqrobT, ase es? arsebobs Tu ara spontanurobis Seswavlis raime teqnika?

principSi veTanxmebi. rogorc ukve giTxariT Tqven SegiZliaT adamianebs SeaswavloT musikis meqanika, magram ara is Tu rogor gaxdnend niWierebi. modiT isev enas davubrundeT. me SemiZlia vaswavlo inglisuri Tu me inglisuris maswavlebeli var, magram me ver vaswavli Tu rogor unda gaxde didi oratori an komikosi. me ver Cavudeb adamians oratorobis niWs. dRes televizorSi erT politikoss vusmendi da vfiqrobdi, - hoo, am tips oratorobis saocari niWi aqvs! miuxedavad imisa rom yvela CvenTagans SegviZlia saubari, arian iseTebic visac komunikaciis gansakuTrebuli unari aqvT. ra Tqma unda niWis daxvewa aucilebelia, magram pirvel rigSi Tqven unda gqondeT es niWi. improvizatorebis SemTxvevaSic asea. nebismier musikoss SeuZlia imrovizireba, magram WeSmaritad didi improvizatori rom gaxde sxva ram gesaWiroeba. araviTari saidumlo swavlebebi ar arsebobs Tu rogor gaxde didi musikosi. mxolod musikis meqanikis Seswavlaa SesaZlebeli... igive exeba kompoziciis unarsac; Tqven SegiZliaT SeiswavloT kompoziciis meqanika, Temis ganviTarebis teqnika da ase Semdeg, magram gesaWiroebT niWi imisaTvis, rom dasrulebuli produqti namdvili xelovnebis nawarmoebi gaxdes. amitomacaa aTas musikosSi mxolod oci an ocdaaTi Tu aRwevs marTlac rom umaRles mwvervalebs.

Tqven xarT musikosi, ganmanaTlebeli da am oriode wlis win moulodnelad radio dijeic gaxdiT. ar aris gamoricxuli, rom mec movkido xeli am saqmes. raime rCevebi xom ara gaqvT damwyebebisaTvis?

rCevebi saWiro araa; Tqven TviTon kargad gaarTmevT Tavs am saqmes... ise ki nebismieri jazmeni or rameze ocnebobs, - pirveli, qondes sakuTari xmis Camweri studia imisaTvis rom rodesac moesurveba maSin Caweros diski da meore, moxvdes mikrofonis meore mxares. wlebis ganmavlobaSi imdeni radio arxi atrialebs Cven musikas da imdeni dro midis radio interviuebSi sadac sakuTar musikaze vsaubrobT, rom Cven yovelTvis migvaCnia, rom Zalian kargi iqneboda mikrofonis meore mxares movxvedriliyaviT da is musika gvetrialebia Cven rom mogvwons. ori wlis win me erT-erTma arxma dampatiJa da arxis direqtori SemekiTxa rodesme di-jeoba Tu micdia. me vuTxari rom ara, magram rogorc musikosebis umravlesobas, mec megona rom es garTobis kargi saSualeba iqneboda CemTvis. direqtorma SemomTavaza rom mecada da ai ukve meore welia rac me radio di-jei var. me amas kviraSi erTxel vakeTeb da ara aqvs mniSvneloba msoflios romel kuTxeSi vimyofebi am dros. Cems Semdeg Sous moskovidan gadavcem. me sul Tan davatareb patara cifrul reqorders da mikrofons. teqsts internetiT vawvdi radio arxis ofiss niu-iorkSi. daaxloebiT ori saaTis ganmavlobaSi icdaoTxamde mokle gancxadebas vaswreb. rogorc wesi programis direqtorTan erTad vmuSaob xolme, Tumca eTerSi gasaSvebi musikis sias mxolod me vadgen. Semdeg ki is Tanmimdevrobas awyobs da SualedebSi Cems teqstebs umatebs. programis dros me ZiriTadad vsaubrob im kompoziciaze, romelic es esaa gaisma da ra Tqma unda momdevno kompoziciaze. rodesac vTqvaT soni rolinzidan Carli mingusze gadavdivar me msmenels vuyvebi Tu rogor iCxubes mingusma da jon luisma karnegi hohlSi koncertis Semdeg im periodSi, rodesac me mingusTan vukravdi. teqtsebs ZiriTadad oTxSabaTobiT da xuTSabaTobiT vwer xolme, programa ki kviraobiT gadis.. ar vici ramden xans gastans es, magram faqtia, rom kargad verTobi. garda amisa es Cemi popularobis asamaRlebladac kargia, vinaidan programa mTel amerikas da kanadas moicavs.

ar vici iciT Tu ara Tqven is, rom, rom yofil sabWoTa sivrceSi mcxovreb jazis moyvarulTa didma nawilma swored radios meSveobiT Seiyvares jazi. am SemTxvevaSi ra Tqma unda pirvel rigSi yvelaze popularuli dijeis, uilis qanoveris gvars gavixsenebdi...

diax, me es vici. rodesac me moskovSi pirvelad Cavedi 1981 wels bevri adgilobrivi musikosi meubneboda amas. 

rentgenis suraTebze Cawerili musikis Sesaxeb Tu gsmeniaT raime?

ara.

me ar vici Tu rogor akeTebdnen amas teqnikuri TvalsazrisiT, magram iyvnen adamianebi, ZiriTadad jazis moyvarulebi, romlebic jazur kompoziciebs rentgenis suraTebze iwerdnen. Mme mxolod erTxel maqvs nanaxi aseTi “diski”. warmoidgineT, iRebT rentgenis suraTs da uyurebT viRacis guls, filtvebs, kuW-nawlavs... mokled, ggoniaT rom es rentgenis ubralo suraTia, magram sakravze dadeb da uecrad qolTreinis romelime kompozicia gesmiT.

meSayirebiT?

ra Tqma unda ara; es sruli simarTlea.